New server build and aspect ratio problem

General
1

Hi,

Not new to Caspar but some time from last contact.
Just build a new server (2.3.3.0), Windows 10 Pro, HP Z440 with Xeon and 32GB RAM and several SSDs for system and media. Decklink Duo 2 card.

Everything fine so far but in the final phase I encountered a problem.
This server has been built to replace a PAL (16:9) AVID Airspeed that broke. The Tv studio is built around a PAL (16:9) Grass Valley KAYAK SD mixer and we don’t need to upgrade it to HD at this time.
Now the problem I found is that I configure the Decklink channels as PAL output (in the config file and the Blackmagic Desktop video) and everything I try to playout outputs through the Decklink in 4:3 (horizontally compressed)

Any idea?

Thanks in advance

2

What is your source of the SD media? I ask because some files include display aspect ratio metadata - and hence I wonder if that may apply here?

There are a couple of useful HD files that were distributed with older versions of CasparCG, so you may have them on an older Caspar System, or they can be extracted from a downloaded server version 2.1 NRK at NRK_V2.1, looking in folder deploy/general/server/media The media file names are amb.mp4 and go1080p25.mp4

Although these are HD, Caspar will auto-convert these to SD on playout. Once the files are in the server media folder you can play them from the console window by typing:

play 1-10 amb
or
play 1-10 go1080p25

Either of these files should fully fit the output on the SD output.

3

Hi Andyw,

Thank you very much for the support.

I only tried a couple of files, they were produced in FullHD and I transcoded them with Handbrake to SD 1024x576.

I’ll give a try as you say but it’ll be on Thursday, We’ve vacations until there here in Spain.

4

I think there is a misunderstanding on the way 16:9 has been implemented in SD. Actually there has never been a 16:9 SD resolution, it always have been 720x576 in PAL. The 16:9 picture is squeezed horizontally. SD 16:9 was a way to fill TV Stations archives with material, that is easier to be up-converted to HD, without loosing a lot of the already smaller resolution, by cutting of the upper and lower part of the 4:3.

During playout the signal has normally been converted to letterbox, reducing the active resolution of the picture. But that was not important, as the material (at the stations archives) has the “full” resolution.

So if you render your videos to 1024x576 and play them out via Caspar, or any other playout station, it will be played out in 720x576 and will be squeezed. That is the correct behavior. If you use Caspar as a playout to air, you need to add a MIXER effect, that makes a letterbox out of your videos. But for studio work you should not do that. Instead the Kayak (that does also work in 720x576 and not in 1024x576) will work as expected, you just need to switch the aspect ratio switches on your monitors to 16:9.

By the way: The same applies for NTSC, but with slightly different numbers.

5

@jparis forget about aspect ratio. Render the files to 720x576 and then play them via casparcg in 4:3 mode. As @didikunz says dont forget to set the monitors to 16:9 just to see them correctly.
4:3 and 16:9 have the exact same amount of pixels.
They only differ on pixel aspect ratio - PAR .

I assume at the output of the transmission chain you have an AFD or WSS inserter.

6

I have to say that I knew all this stuff but was buried in some obscure part of my brain. Too much years in the digital domain and now I realize I’m loosing my old analog skills…

@didikunz , thank you so much for your clarividence and fantastic exposition
@dan , @andyw thank you for your help

Everything working as expected.

BTW, is there any way to change the server configuration “on the fly” or I need to prepare some kind of batch file that let me respawn the caspar with a different config file?

7

While you can do some stuff using the ADD command, it’s probably easier to add a few batch files and just start Caspar with it.

There are also ways to make a batch file show a menu, using choice, so that you only have one desktop shortcut and then choose the configuration you want to start.

8

OK, thank you again. I’ll try to elaborate on the batch way

9

Hi,
I have another odd problem here, don’t know if would be better to start a new thread… Tell me if I must do so.

The new server is working OK with the Decklink Duo 2, configured as 3 playout PAL channels and 1 record PAL channel.
All the tests were made using Blackmagic Videoassists 7" at the outputs and Blackmagic Hyperdeck Mini as input for the record channel.
We also made a custom client but the issue is the same using the original client.
As all the test went fine it was time to move the server to production. As said it’s a PAL SDI studio with a Grass Valley Kayak DD mixer, a couple of 1st generation Avid AirSpeeds and a Evertz VIP multiviewer system.
Now on to the issue.
Once installed and feed with Blackburst I can see the playout in the multiview monitors, also can see the playout in a Blackmagic videoassist (the videoassist indicates 625i50 as format) but CAN’T see the image in the Kayak. All I see is this:

IMG_5224
IMG_52241920×1440 469 KB

IMG_5223
IMG_52231920×1440 255 KB

The three windows with TC are the outputs from the Decklink and the second one is on the PVW bus and it seems to be not sincronized but it is, the meter included within the Kayak show the signal as sincronized.
As said if I connect one of these signals from the Decklink/Caspar to my Videoassist it says that is 625i50.
I also make another test and was to pass one of these signals (first one) through a scaler (Decimator HX) and programmed the scaler to output 625i50 (the scaler don’t receive genlock, only signal in and signal out) and this is the display of the scaler:
IMG_5227
IMG_52271920×2560 239 KB

And you can see same in and same out… and now the signal get recognized OK by the Kayak…
Then I did another try, reset the server, didn’t start the Carspar or anything related to it, double check Desktop Video, it was OK, and launched Blackmagic MediaExpress, selected a PAL videoclip, same one (bars and TC) I was using with Caspar and the signal got right into the GV, no problems at all…

So it seems to be a Caspar related issue and here are my config file (3 PAL outputs and 1 input and some consumers to do streaming for our custom client) and a Caspar log (launch and close):

[2022-03-29 13:25:19.056] [info]    ############################################################################
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.056] [info]    CasparCG Server is distributed by the Swedish Broadcasting Corporation (SVT)
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.056] [info]    under the GNU General Public License GPLv3 or higher.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.056] [info]    Please see LICENSE.TXT for details.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.056] [info]    http://www.casparcg.com/
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.056] [info]    ############################################################################
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.056] [info]    Starting CasparCG Video and Graphics Playout Server 2.3.3 e0bbb969 Dev
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.208] [info]    Initializing OpenGL Device.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.213] [info]    Initialized OpenGL 4.5.0 NVIDIA 496.76 NVIDIA Corporation
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.214] [info]    Initialized image module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.216] [info]    Initialized ffmpeg module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.216] [info]    Initialized oal module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.216] [info]    Initialized decklink module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.216] [info]    Initialized screen module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.216] [info]    Initialized newtek module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.242] [info]    Initialized html module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.242] [info]    Flash support is disabled
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.242] [info]    Initialized flash module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]    Initialized bluefish module.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]    "C:/CasparCG\casparcg.config":
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]    -----------------------------------------
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]    <configuration>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]       <paths>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <media-path>M:\MEDIA</media-path>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <log-path>log/</log-path>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <data-path>data/</data-path>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <template-path>template/</template-path>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]       </paths>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]       <channels>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <video-mode>PAL</video-mode>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <straight-alpha-output>false</straight-alpha-output>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <consumers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                <decklink>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <device>1</device>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <keyer>external</keyer>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <key-only>false</key-only>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <embedded-audio>true</embedded-audio>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <channel-layout>stereo</channel-layout>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <latency>low</latency>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <buffer-depth>5</buffer-depth>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                </decklink>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             </consumers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <video-mode>PAL</video-mode>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <straight-alpha-output>false</straight-alpha-output>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <consumers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                <decklink>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <device>2</device>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <keyer>external</keyer>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <key-only>false</key-only>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <embedded-audio>true</embedded-audio>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <channel-layout>stereo</channel-layout>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <latency>low</latency>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <buffer-depth>5</buffer-depth>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                </decklink>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             </consumers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <video-mode>PAL</video-mode>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <straight-alpha-output>false</straight-alpha-output>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <consumers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                <decklink>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <device>3</device>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <keyer>external</keyer>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <key-only>false</key-only>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <embedded-audio>true</embedded-audio>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <channel-layout>stereo</channel-layout>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <latency>low</latency>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                   <buffer-depth>5</buffer-depth>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]                </decklink>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             </consumers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <video-mode>PAL</video-mode>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <straight-alpha-output>false</straight-alpha-output>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <video-mode>PAL</video-mode>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <straight-alpha-output>false</straight-alpha-output>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <video-mode>PAL</video-mode>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <straight-alpha-output>false</straight-alpha-output>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <video-mode>PAL</video-mode>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <straight-alpha-output>false</straight-alpha-output>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </channel>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]       </channels>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]       <controllers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          <tcp>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <port>5250</port>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]             <protocol>AMCP</protocol>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]          </tcp>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]       </controllers>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]       <log-level>debug</log-level>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]    </configuration>
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.243] [info]    -----------------------------------------
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.249] [info]    Initialized OpenGL Accelerated GPU Image Mixer for channel 1
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.250] [info]    video_channel[1|PAL] Successfully Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.250] [info]    Initialized OpenGL Accelerated GPU Image Mixer for channel 2
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.250] [info]    video_channel[2|PAL] Successfully Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.251] [info]    Initialized OpenGL Accelerated GPU Image Mixer for channel 3
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.251] [info]    video_channel[3|PAL] Successfully Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.252] [info]    Initialized OpenGL Accelerated GPU Image Mixer for channel 4
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.252] [info]    video_channel[4|PAL] Successfully Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.253] [info]    Initialized OpenGL Accelerated GPU Image Mixer for channel 5
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.253] [info]    video_channel[5|PAL] Successfully Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.253] [info]    Initialized OpenGL Accelerated GPU Image Mixer for channel 6
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.253] [info]    video_channel[6|PAL] Successfully Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.254] [info]    Initialized OpenGL Accelerated GPU Image Mixer for channel 7
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.255] [info]    video_channel[7|PAL] Successfully Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.275] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Enabled embedded-audio.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.275] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Enabled low-latency mode.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.275] [error]   DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Failed to enable external keyer.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.278] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.310] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Enabled embedded-audio.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.310] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Enabled low-latency mode.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.310] [error]   DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Failed to enable external keyer.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.312] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.350] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Enabled embedded-audio.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.350] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Enabled low-latency mode.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.350] [error]   DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Failed to enable external keyer.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.352] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Initialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.352] [info]    Initialized channels.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.352] [info]    Initialized command repository.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.352] [info]    Initialized startup producers.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.354] [info]    Initialized controllers.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.354] [info]    Initialized osc.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.372] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Reference signal: not detected.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.411] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Reference signal: not detected.
[2022-03-29 13:25:19.451] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Reference signal: not detected.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.093] [info]    Received message from Console: q\r\n
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.096] [info]    [asio] Shutting down global io_service.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.096] [info]    [asio] Global io_service uninitialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.201] [info]    video_channel[1|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.213] [debug]   DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.232] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Scheduled playback has stopped.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.253] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [1-1|PAL] Uninitialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.253] [info]    video_channel[2|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.273] [debug]   DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.312] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Scheduled playback has stopped.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.314] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [2-2|PAL] Uninitialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.314] [info]    video_channel[3|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.333] [debug]   DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.352] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Scheduled playback has stopped.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.373] [info]    DeckLink Duo 2 [3-3|PAL] Uninitialized.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.373] [info]    video_channel[4|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.381] [info]    video_channel[5|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.402] [info]    video_channel[6|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.421] [info]    video_channel[7|PAL] Uninitializing.
[2022-03-29 13:25:22.451] [info]    Successfully shutdown CasparCG Server.

I’m frustrated actually…

Any idea?

10

Seems something weird with the genlock (reference). The Kayak is very picky with unsynchronized video.

11

You should also change latency to normal and buffer-depth to 4 (if you want a 5 frame latency, otherwise 3 or 2).

The card itself handles the sync but notifies CCG if it drops out as you can see in the logs. So you would have to check that the blackburst is stable and and the cables OK. You might also want to check the sync status in the Desktop Video control panel without any other software using the card.

12

Thank you @didikunz and @hreinnbeck for your fast replies, the BB cable is the one that was feeding the old Avid Airspeeds and never had problem with it. I also checked it connecting and disconnecting to see if I notice some changes in the PGM signal and yes, you can note the connections/disconnections and also, as said, if I use a scaler (Decimator) with no external reference, just scaling the output of the Caspar, the Kayak likes it and I have perfect image and perfectly genlocked as the Kayak doesn’t complain about it (and @didikunz is right when sais that this mixers are very picky with genlock quality).

And don’t forget that, without touching the hardware, if I turn off Caspar software and launch MediaExpress with the same video clip used in Caspar, the Kayak accepts it without doubt, so it leads me to think in a Caspar related issue…

13

Does the same happen with other clips or graphics? You might also test switching the outputs to SMPTE A in Desktop Video. And you might test an older version of CCG, not sure that anyone tests SD output anymore.

14

Yes, I tried with other clips and also tried changing level from B to A (knowing that the correct setting is B) but no luck at all.
Also tried and older version of Caspar with same results…
I also own another Deklink card with 8 input/output… MMaybe tomorrow I’ll try to change the card and see what happens…

15

I guess it has something to do with Ancillary data. Which the decimator strips/ replaces. If you have a scope or analyzer you maybe can do a side by side check in ancillary data space. If not you probally have a old SD montor with HV-delay. Sometimes you can see differences in ANCspace there which can give a clue.

Do you use embedded audio.
Although not a solution you can try to switch it on or off to see if this change something.

I don’t no kayaks that good but maybe there is a setting to strip ancillary data on the input’s